LEILA FADEL, BYLINE: Former FBI director James Comey is back in the news, as an author and as the subject of a federal investigation over a social media post. Comey's latest book is "FDR Drive." At the heart of this crime novel are two questions - what is free speech, and what happens when someone's words incite violence? The book is fiction, but those two questions are front and center to the political climate right now in the United States. James Comey s me now to discuss his new book and the government's ongoing probe into the meaning of a now-deleted personal Instagram post. Good morning. Thanks for ing us.
JAMES COMEY: Good morning. Thanks for having me.
FADEL: If you could just briefly describe the plot of this novel.
COMEY: It's about a right-wing podcaster who is trying to motivate his followers to engage in acts of violence against the targets of his vitriol. And it's about my protagonist, Nora Carleton, a federal prosecutor in Manhattan, trying to figure out, how do we stop the violence? And is there a way to hold this podcaster criminally able for what he clearly knows he's doing? And that's the trick because the line between speech and crime is - it should be clear, but it's fuzzy.
FADEL: What brought the creation of this case, in your mind, that deals with something we've been reporting a lot on - this line between free speech and violent incitement and domestic terrorism, ideologically motivated violence?
COMEY: It bubbled up from my having to grapple with that very issue throughout my career. I saw the growth of this domestic, homegrown, white-supremacy-focused violence, and I thought, I know this is an issue for the FBI in investigating these cases. I know this is a key dimension of the threat. I think I could do a cool story that would grip readers using that as the center of it.
FADEL: Frankly, in the book, there's this theme about how men are more likely to be radicalized when they feel as if they are under some sort of siege. And you write that it's a message that has worked for all of human history. Can you say more about that?
COMEY: Yeah. I think, unfortunately, speaking as a man, we, especially and - or maybe before our prefrontal cortex is fully developed, are susceptible to messages that touch our aspiration to be super figures, to be dominant, masculine-centered, respected people. And those many people who don't feel that, who feel disaffected, disrespected, are - especially men, are susceptible to messages that come at them and promise them a center, a source of meaning and an affirmation of your masculine role as an important figure in life.
FADEL: Why did you choose to write female characters as the ones really beating this back?
COMEY: I tried to write with a mini-me as the protagonist, and I really struggle with that. My oldest child is a federal prosecutor in Manhattan and a woman. And once I switched to writing through her, it unlocked something for me, and it became a - really a labor of love for me.
FADEL: Did you have your daughter read any bits as you developed the character?
COMEY: Oh, yes. In fact, all five of my kids and my wife are indispensable parts of my writing. They read...
FADEL: Oh, really?
COMEY: ...And draft and give me . Yep.
FADEL: That's great. Is that - so is that ever contentious?
COMEY: Well, yeah. I know - the line they've drawn is, Dad, you cannot write sex scenes. So I don't want to disappoint my readers. There's lots of excitement in these books, but there is no sex.
FADEL: Oh, my God. That is so funny. Also, I wonder if the American public is ready for a former FBI director to write sex scenes.
COMEY: Yeah, the former FBI director is not ready, so don't worry about it.
FADEL: (Laughter).
COMEY: It's - you're never going to have to wrestle with that question.
FADEL: So a few days ago, you posted a picture on Instagram of seashells spelling out the numbers 86, 47. You've since deleted the photo, as the number 86 can be interpreted as slang for to eject, dismiss or remove - something that originated in the restaurant business. The post quickly drew the ire of the Trump istration and his ers, accusing you of calling for his assassination. You have the head of national intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, saying you should be in jail. And they're saying you've called for the assassination - 86 the 47th president. Is that what you were doing?
COMEY: No, no. Not even remotely. We were walking on the beach and saw an arrangement of numbers, as you said, in seashells and stopped, trying to figure out what it was. And it was Patrice who first said what you said. She first thought it was an address. Then, as we stared at it, I said, I think it's a political message. And she said, I from - she worked for many years as a server, growing up. That's a term from the restaurant industry. And so it was she who suggested I take the picture. I thought, that's great. I took a picture and posted it 'cause I thought it was a clever political thing. Never occurred to me that someone would try to say it was associated with violence. I actually still don't see that. But I took it down because I don't want - I mean, this is my Instagram , for God's sakes. I don't want anything on there to be associated with violence, even if I don't get it.
FADEL: But it has prompted an interview by the Secret Service about the matter. I mean, where does this investigation stand, and are you worried that you could be prosecuted for it?
COMEY: Yeah, I'm not worried, 'cause there's no world in which this is an actual threat. And I understand why the Secret Service, given all that public leadership was saying in the Trump istration, had to conduct an investigation, or at least - I don't know whether they formally opened an investigation, but had to interview me. Happy to do the interview. Happy to explain, just as I did to you, with you, how this came about.
FADEL: This is an istration that has been very vocal about wanting to go after perceived political enemies for anyone that they see as a threat. I mean, is this part of it?
COMEY: I'm sure. I mean, I - for reasons I cannot explain, I seem to be the relationship that Donald Trump just can't get over. I mean, I've been gone from the FBI job for more than eight years. But he still wakes up some nights, I guess, with pain in his chest that I'm gone, and I resurface in some of his posts. I guess maybe that'll happen forever, but it's just something I've gotten used to. And I try not to let it throw me off or distract me.
FADEL: Do you regret the post?
COMEY: Sure. I regret it in the sense that it became a distraction. I don't regret it in the sense that I had any sense that it was related to violence. As I said, I still don't see that and still have always understood 86 as the way you said. Or actually, when I was a kid, 86 meant, let's get out of here. Again, I regret it in the sense that it's caused me to have to talk about seashells, but otherwise, no.
FADEL: James Comey's new crime thriller is "FDR Drive." Thank you so much, and congratulations on your book.
COMEY: Thanks. It's great to talk with you.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC) Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
